Interview with Philippe Dargère on the Theme of "Cults"

Philippe Dargère runs the naturopathy school Philippe Dargère-Univers and is president of the Fédération Européenne de Naturopathie Vitaliste. In this 2009 interview with CICNS he offers a practitioner’s testimony: decades of administrative inspections and legal pressure on natural-health teaching, his rejection of the “cult” label for such movements, and his plea to educate the public rather than “protect” it.

CICNS interview. (English translation of the interview published on the CICNS YouTube channel on 9 January 2009. The French transcript was machine-transcribed from the video and cleaned before translation; passages the machine could not reliably hear are marked [inaudible].)

[Interviewer]: Philippe Dargère has been a naturopathic health practitioner since 1976. He was chosen by Pierre-Valentin Marchesseau, a biologist and the founding father of naturopathy in France, to succeed him at the head of the AISH, the Académie Internationale des Sciences de l’Homme. In 1992 he took over this school under the name École Marchesseau, which operated until 1997 with Colette Marchesseau; then, from September 1998, he would run it under the banner Philippe Dargère-Univers. He is also president of the Fédération Européenne de Naturopathie Vitaliste, created in the 1950s under the name Fédération Internationale de Naturopathie. This federation is accredited by the Fédération Mondiale de Naturopathie. Cited negatively in the 2018 [sic], 2005, 2006 and 2007 reports of the MIVILUDES, naturopathy is nonetheless listed by the WHO as a traditional medicine. Philippe Dargère shares his testimony and his perception of the climate of fear, institutionalized by the hunt against cults, which now affects the whole range of alternative health practices.

[Dargère]: It must be understood that Marchesseau, who brought naturopathy to France in 1935, was subjected to seven trials “de sang vivant”. That is to say, there were things that were not to be said — but certainly protected professions, in this case that of illness. So Marchesseau, being concerned with health, brought in an enormous number of revitalizing products, since he was the founder of large dietetic-products companies. And it was perceived that there he was touching something important. So that earned him lawsuits, and we ourselves, when my wife and I took over the École Marchesseau in 1992, were subjected to an enormous number of inspections and pressures. That made us realize that there was discrimination against all these techniques of health, vitality, well-being and spirituality.

So we are of course, at the present time, under pressure from the medical establishment and from society, because we do not want to march in the ranks, we do not want to be sheep. In 1985 or 1986 we underwent an inspection that lasted 13 years, only to be told, at the end of those 13 years of inspection, that we had been right. Only, in the meantime, it cost us an enormous amount of energy, an enormous amount of psychological worry, and an enormous amount of money that we did not necessarily have. The administrative pressure is quite heavy, and it is true that you have to be well anchored in your convictions not to suffer from it too much.

And I had the good fortune, with avant-garde parents, to learn to stop being afraid. My parents had already undergone inspections in the 1950s, in the 1960s — always. They defended their convictions. That is what made us aware of that authenticity. So I learned, through their fear, to no longer be afraid. So this pressure does not affect me much. On the other hand, it must be borne in mind that we are a couple, and that my wife suffered enormously from the pressures at one time. Little by little, she is freeing herself from them.

But it is true that you have to be in a furrow, with an ideal and a purpose. If we do not have that ideal, if we are not in our furrow, it was obvious that everything administrative, everything to do with inspections, can kill an individual, both emotionally and psychologically. And unfortunately, we know a great many people who suffer these pressures and who, little by little, either fall ill or destroy themselves. So I hope not to reach that point, and to be sufficiently anchored in my ideal to face these pressures, which do not mean much.

I find it damaging that many, even schools of naturopathy — but even within the so-called natural medicines, indeed the various philosophies — many do not use certain terms, no longer dare to use certain terms. That is to say, they have been frightened and led to believe that if those terms are used, there will be a witch-hunt. I repeat and I affirm that the more authentic we are, the less afraid we are, and the more society will advance. There is no good or evil; there are only individuals trying to evolve. So from the moment one has understood that, one can no longer be afraid. And I invite everyone, precisely, to move beyond that fear by having a common ideal — that is, the well-being of our children, the well-being of future generations, and so on. I think we must lift the shield of fear. And if we try to move toward the love that spirituality develops, it is quite obvious that fear will little by little disappear.

The fear being put in place at the present time with the hunt against cults, against witches, and so on, is simply that our system is becoming aware that it is going to lose a certain power. So I think we are arriving at an end-purpose of society, at an end of society, at an end of a cycle — I do not know what to call it — but it is quite obvious that all together we are ready to take a turn where consciousness will open up and where everyone will be able to flourish in it.

The fear the public feels was, for me, put in place knowingly by organizations whose supposed purpose is to protect the consumer. I think the consumer should not be protected; he should be educated, and there should be round tables with materialists, with spiritualists, with all sorts of religious philosophies, and so on. Because for me, freedom of thought can only come from knowledge. And at the present time, you understand very well that freedom of thought cannot be put in place, since with freedom of thought, the public can no longer be managed. What they would like is to go on managing the public — without, of course, any philosophy at its base. So always, every time there is a philosophy, the public will automatically be made afraid.

When I watch programmes that talk a little about alternative medicines, or indeed about spiritualist movements, one realizes very quickly that it is manipulated. Already in Marchesseau’s time, in the 1960s, he did several broadcasts — at the time it was not live — and one noticed that, when the programme went out to the general public, well, his thinking was completely inverted. So it is true that at one time Marchesseau was criticized enormously, but that made me realize that we were already being remote-controlled in the 1960s. So I think that, as the media have developed, well, the mechanism has got worse. And I sincerely think that everything that goes out in the media is, unfortunately, more often disinformation than information. But there again, you need a minimum of awareness and judgement to know how to read between the lines.

The work that we are all doing together — all the movements described as marginal, described as cults, which, I repeat, for me does not mean much — well, I sincerely think that if the media were a little on our side, society would change very quickly. I sincerely think that consciousness is ready; only, the media would need to be able to play their proper role as mediator. That is to say, one can have one side of the story, but the antithesis would also be needed. And the media, for the moment, are too much the slaves of the globalists and of our governing powers. So it is absolutely time for the people to take its destiny in hand, and the groundwork we are doing is, for me, something that is under way and that cannot be stopped. Whether it is naturopathy or all the other movements described as spiritual.

It is for the public to see what suits it. We must stop — under the pretext of protecting it — waging anti-cult struggles, wanting to protect the consumer by putting the small grocer in prison, while the big stateless corporations are left to do whatever they like. It is a matter of education. The public must be educated without trying to convince it, and it is for the public, as conscious persons, to choose its truth. And from the moment consciousness is there, truth falls into place. If a truth exists.

At the present time, on the internet, we see an enormous number of sites appearing concerning natural medicines, concerning the various movements described as spiritual, and so on. Everyone affirming, of course, that there is no cult behind them. I repeat: for me, there is no cult anywhere. The biggest cult is the one that wants to keep power. So it is up to us, the public, to see who wants to keep power. Knowledge, philosophy, well-being belong to everyone. So that cannot be part of a cult. And all these movements and all these sites that we see at the present time do not even have to defend themselves over whether or not they belong to a cult. Never have I defended myself against belonging to a cult. Nor do I believe that all these movements of natural medicine and spirituality belong to cults. We simply want a little happiness, a little physiological well-being, a little health for our children, and a lot of love. So if love is spirituality, then I am completely a spiritualist. And I dare to claim it. It is a fine effort.

Society, if it changes one day, or if we want it to change, begins with oneself. That is to say, all the cells of society must be more or less healthy, more or less thinking, and above all very tolerant. From the moment we all want to advance along the same path, toward that same ideal, society will change of itself.

As for the CICNS’s approach, I think it corresponds to our era, to a collective awakening of consciousness, and I think it is good that associations like this appear — and I hope there will be more and more of them — to humanize our society little by little, and to ensure that all the movements described as marginal, described as cults, described as cult deviance, can unite so as, little by little, to become a force in our society. Because, I repeat, I do not believe in cult deviances. I believe simply in a loss of power by certain people who are trying to patch it over by frightening the public, by saying that cults exist, by making people believe there are manipulations. I do not believe in any of that, from the moment consciousness is under way. And I think that the CICNS will precisely make possible the union of all these movements.